Can you tell me a little about how Underground records got started?

Underground Records began in the Summer of 1982. I had been doing 4-track and live recordings with some of my bands during the previous couple of years, and basically since the recordings were so bad I got turned down by a few dozen major and indie labels, so I decided it was in the best interest if I had a label I could use as a marketing vehicle for my recordings. I was 15 at the time. It started with a few hundred cassettes I'd buy in bulk at flea markets and a dubbing cassette deck (I've burnt out a few since then!!). I'd re-record over the cassettes, put on paper labels with homemade inserts and sell them at gigs my band would play. Along the way I met other bands with similar circumstances and we'd network together, doing gigs, and selling each other's tapes at shows, and in any record stores we'd find that would let us put our stuff in. In many ways, Underground, as far as the label is concerned, is going back to this DIY type of mentality, I am purchasing a CD duplicator and CD label printer early next year (if I can get all the cash needed), and we'll do as many good bands here in my home studio in Adairsville, Georgia as I can find and put out their music this way.

In the beginning, I would contact everyone I could through fanzines. One of my best contacts was a guy in West Germany who I'd send boxes of tapes and vinyl to and he had some buddies who were East German border guards who used to get the music to people all over the Soviet Bloc countries. I still have many of the letters from people in Soviet countries who were rockin' to underground music, and I had at least 5 or 6 marriage proposals from Russian women! Someone recently said they saw some of my music on CD in Moscow, so someone over there is bootlegging one of my old tapes, which must sound horrible! I knew once rock n roll got started in good in the USSR, it's (the Soviet) days were numbered. There are many reasons why the Soviet Union failed, but rock n roll, and the freedom underground music represented, has to be in the top 10. I don't know whatever happened to my friend in Germany, I have other contacts now, but I'd someday like to hear from my original "smuggler" again!

I just had a milestone, Underground Records passed the 1200 indie labels mark in our catalog, and the new labels are coming to me at an average of over 30 new ones a month. There is now growth in the Underground like never before.

How can Underground Records help the unsigned artist that has a CD complete?

Underground Records has distribution connections throughout the world. I sell online and through mail-order. Occasionally I will do retail work, but over the years more retail stores ripped me off
than paid me for the goods. Without a staff, doing retail seedings and distribution is almost beyond my means. But I have an awesome updated list of retail stores which I'd be glad to offer to anyone who needs such information. I don't require the band to pay to get listed, and I offer good, effective promotions much cheaper than most other places. Sure, it's not a "big" thing, but I can offer to help get the band some recognition, some sales, and help define and develop their markets, which is more important
for street-level indie bands than most people realize.

I also promote and sell through the Underground Sound printzine, which I produce monthly here in my home. It goes out throughout the world and it has been with me, in one shape or the other, since the beginning, just like
TRIP 248, my DJ style rock n roll show which reaches around the world through independent and college radio. I actually have been doing the show since before I began Underground Records. I think the oldest version of
the show I have is from 1978, I was like 11 going on 12 years old and was learning to play guitar as I was learning to play the saxophone in middle school! 12 years old was also when I started my first band, today we'd make Hanson look really uncool!

Can you give me the details on a typical deal that you would strike with an unsigned band?

If the band has product, then as I mentioned above I will offer them distribution. If not, or in addition to, then if I feel the group is developed enough and has good potential, I will pass them along to other indie labels or major labels I have contacts with who might be able to do recording production and manufacturing for the band. Underground Records doesn't currently have the financial resources to take on full production and manufacturing deals, at least not more than one or two a year. I will also offer to do some free ads and some PR plugs for the band in my webzine publications, and put up their bios, pictures, sound files and whatever in our CompuServe online libraries. Plus, if the band wants to play some clubs, I will book them wherever I can, especially here in Atlanta. Basically, I don't require fancy contracts and agreements. Now, if I do pass along a band that a label would like to sign I expect to be compensated if the deal is done. I'm really flexible on all these fronts though. I am still playing in bands, and I have to put up with everything all these other bands do, so I understand in full what kind of DIY, street level deals work for the purposes the band desires.

If an unsigned band works out a deal with you are they still free and clear to shop to labels for a record deal?

Definitely. If they take part in our Underground A&R Report which references them to hundreds of labels, the labels contact them direct. In distribution, everything is open-ended, I don't do exclusive distro anymore
because to do that for real means a budget of thousands per band. Underground has limited, and I mean limited budgeting. I finance everything and do all the work myself. I don't even require bands to sign management deals anymore, because I will only work with really good bands on the management level, and until I get offers from labels concerning the band, everything is done on a gentleman's agreement. If the band gets an offer and it's through my channels, it is understood at that time I require an agreement as to compensation for my efforts. Up until that time, I work for them for free, or extremely cheap. Because I am doing this to help bands get their music out there, not to get rich.

I have had some bands get right there to the signing level, get an expensive lawyer, and really screw things up. Lawyers in the music industry are like maggots feeding on a corpse, I have yet to meet with one who I could work with, who was in it for the good of the artist, not their own pocketbooks. This has happened so often I couldn't tell you. That or we get multiple offers, the band ignores my suggestion on how to proceed, and blows the deal...I'd say that has happened a dozen times over the years. The worst though, which has happened three or four times, is when the band gets a deal, and says to hell with Todd and Underground. I break bones in
those situations. Fortunately, I haven't had to kill anyone.....yet.

Can you tell me a little about Rockfest?

I developed Rockfest in 1990 to showcase indie bands for other indie or major labels. Some of the bands may be distributed by Underground, yet most of them are in the demo stage, although a few are from indie labels
who just want to play and showcase their music in hopes of promoting their products. I choose the bands on ability with their talents, and musical scope. I don't go for "in" sounding bands, just good bands. Rockfest
tries to get local media and some national attention for the bands. Of course, Rockfest was totally ripped off by Blockbuster Entertainment in 1997, when they used a large outdoor venue, similar logos and concepts, and
instead of unsigned bands they used huge big name brand acts....it was the biggest ticketed event in festival history. I have inside information they knew about the real Rockfest, decided I was an ant, that their lawyers
could crush me, or they could easily get me "taken care of"....that they could just do as they pleased with it since I surely didn't have the money to fight them...well, they thought wrong...I will get them in the end....the whole thing was a charade....what was really bad is that MTV televised the thing, and people from all over the world were emailing and calling me wanting T-shirts and videos of the event...they thought it was an Underground event! It almost ruined Rockfest because now everyone thinks Rockfest is some big event with big name acts, not a showcase for indie acts. So many labels and media told me for Rockfest 1998 they would not attend, because they felt like I was using the Rockfest name and image for my own purposes, and was copying Blockbuster!! What an insidious joke!!!

When is the next Rockfest scheduled?

During the spring of 1999 here in Atlanta, Georgia. I am also trying to get one in Los Angeles, and NYC. It'll be cybercast, just like three of the last four have been. For 1999 I am making a concentrated effort to let the labels and media know this is the REAL Rockfest, and not some fat cat glory hole.

If a band is interested in performing at the next Rockfest should they send out a press kit and tape or CD out to you?

Yes, they can send kits to: Underground Records, Attn: Rockfest 1999, 6422 Hwy 140 NW, Adairsville, GA 30103, USA. They just need to remember, Rockfest is a showcase, there are no performance fees involved. Hopefully, I can get some sponsors in the years to come and help produce revenue to pay some for the bigger acts, right now though, I generally lose a few thousand dollars on the thing.

I also have created the Underground Music festival, which is similar to Rockfest, except it runs over three days and bands do get some compensation. I don't concentrate on getting labels so much as media interested, but all are invited if they'd like to come. There will be a US Underground Music Festival and a Europe Underground Music Festival. The US one will be August 28th, 29th and 30th at the Somber Reptile in Atlanta, GA...all spots for 1998 are filled, so if they'd like to play the US one in 1999, they can mail me a kit, same address as Rockfest, but they need to put attention UGMF. The Underground Music Festival is more than likelygoing to become a fall event in Europe, and a summer event for the US.

How has the internet affected your business?

It redefined the basis of Underground Records, and expanded it greatly in the first 9 years I've used the internet one way or the other. As a one man show, doing all those postal mailers and telephone calls wasn't cost
effective. With the internet, I reach hundreds of thousands via email, can network all over the world, sell directly to the consumer, and promotions are less than 5% of the cost as conventional of traditional methods. Without the internet, mostly I would still be doing very limited retail distribution, show bookings and label contacting by hand. I started using the internet in 1989, when I listed the Underground Records catalog (without prices), band bios, and other text information on college ftp servers, placed there by college buddies.....and every year I get more into it. Man, if I had a backer, we would rule the internet. Still, if you go into newsgroups and on message boards you'll see Underground postings, and I am not trying to "sell" like that, just direct traffic to certain sites.
Too many people now think the internet is one big sales pitch, it has kinda made the internet a mess. In some ways it was better before it got commercial, but it'll never be like that again.. Major labels and big entertainment firms are trying to use the internet as a cheap PR tool....they just don't get it. And what gets me is they hire all these big staffs and pay these big salaries.......the internet hasn't saved Underground in terms of producing income, but then too, Underground Records is not for profit anyway.

Can you give me your views on technology and the internet and how it will be used in the future of the music business?

One of the best things about the internet is it allows small companies to market and promote in a truly cost effective manner. it really doesn't allow us to "compete" with big companies like everyone thinks, because they
have resources for advertising their internet offering where we don't, and they have staffs to keep their sites updated daily, and all this fancy multimedia stuff, in-depth design work, marketing and editorial staffs. It
takes me forever just to keep my pages updated and get the webzines out somewhere close to the publication schedule.

Some of the things, like being able to download songs you choose and create your own CD are still novelty items. There won't be enough CD-R's on home computers for many years to really make that compete with retail stores, but eventually they will. Plus, I've tried some of them, and basically, they don't cut the mustard. I'd rather go to a store, get the music and make my own tapes or CD-R's from the discs, not waiting online for some MP3 file to download and then put it on a CD burner. What too is most people don't realize....most music purchasers still don't even use the internet!!! In my day to day business, most bands have sites, or sound files, and use email alot....but less than a third of the free world uses the internet. Sure, that will change in 3 to 5 years, but it will take that long before all these fancy multimedia promos, create your own disc sites, buy the songs off the net instead of the hard disc kind of things look good to the average consumer.

In 1995, I had an independent group of software developers and hardware vendors working on what is called the Virtual License, which they did as independents, not as hired help. The Virtual License was to be an online
music distribution system, like many of what you see today. After we tested it, we saw that it took way too long to download the songs, some times it wouldn't work right, it took a considerable amount of costly hardware and software on the consumer end, licensing and royalty concerns were very, very involved and generally, unless you had ISDN or T-1, it wasn't going to happen fast enough to make people want to use it. So it was refigured, and now I hope to get it in use using DVD within a few years. All of the development team went on to other things, still the ability to use it has been incorporated in other products..... A combination on DVD where the band uses digital video to create a movie-music experience, like an independent movie studio, with interviews, videos and actual artist rendered movie-style productions and other multimedia stuff will be the future of the music experience you'll be able to get from the web. The band or label will be able to use the DVD to broadcast over the web, and sell it as a physical unit. This of course will require me to have a full-digital production studio, both for audio and video, which even though the costs of such equipment have gone down and is going down, the expense of it still makes the Virtual License a dream, without some development partners with the capital to make it real. The DVD technology needs better standards and some cheaper recording gear, so it'll be at least 2-3 years away before I even get it beginning to happen.

What does the future hold for Underground Records?

Underground Records is being streamlined to function in a more productive manner, with the offerings I have being more effective in their end results. I cannot operate this thing like I have in the past by myself. It takes over 18 hours a day at this point, and it has gotten much too far away from the original concepts. One thing, I have so much music that I personally need to record and get out there, my own original music, my recordings, I am forcing myself to take the time to do it. Otherwise I get tied up, and because of the work load, nothing gets done sometimes. I am working on getting some interns, because I definitely can teach those interested the ropes on how to do it indie style, with a bottom-line or nonexistent budget.

I will continue to develop programs and concepts to help the indie artist and label. Underground leads, and others follow. I am not saying that because I am so great, but because it is the truth. Look at online promotions, online sales and distribution, cybercasting, Rockfest, DIY databases and contacts, independent radio and broadcast marketing vehicles, digital format distribution, A&R reports, the emerging indie way versus the major mindset.....who did them first, or at least one of the first? Underground Records. Yet that really isn't important. What I did yesterday was yesterday, what I am going to do today and tomorrow is what really counts.

I would like to unite with a larger indie label with the capital to make the Underground function in a better way. Without capital resources and a crew of dedicated people, it's Todd answering hundreds of emails a day, spending hours on the phones, booking all the shows, trying to buy records, fill orders, promote, market, do the webzine, printzine, ezine, and mass mailers by myself, and somewhere in there have a life other than work.
Well, it doesn't happen that way, at least not in a productive way generally So there has to be changes, so that means partnerships.

When I pitched Underground Records to many big major labels in the late 1980's, I was told the independent way of things was still undeveloped, they didn't feel it had much to offer, and they used to ask me "what is
this internet thing you are talking about?". I was laughed at and told, more than once, independents will never be able to compete with us, you don't have any money, we do, and we control the promotions and distribution
channels. This was when I worked for Warner/Electra/Atlantic, so after they and none of the other majors showed any interest in developing a separate yet joined independent music industry, I left WEA and here I am
today. I will fight for the indie band and label until I die. Even then, there will be someone more capable than I who will come along and carry the flag. The Underground will never die, and we make it more expensive for
the majors to play their pay-for-play games....because as we get more market share, it makes it more expensive for them to do business. It is generally not known, but as far as new music and product are concerned,
independents have had the lead in marketshare for over 2 years now, and baby, we've just begun!

Any closing comments?

As I said, I am looking for partners, so if anyone sees the potential of UGR, I can guarantee, it is well worth your time and effort. The Underground is only going to get bigger, and it'd happen much faster and better if we network and become partners.

I am now networking with many independent video shows, cable systems and online radio broadcasters. In a few years, you'll see the Underground come to dominate in terms of integrity in the music industry. The old lies of
paid radio and cable television promotions are being uncovered.....many people aren't fooled anymore, when you hear a top five at five and it's supposed to be requests, yet it's spots the label has paid for to play certain songs, not only is this a bold-faced lie on the part of the broadcaster, but it's criminal. So I am networking with independent broadcasters to help promote indie bands, labels and products, truthfully. This will increase greatly in the next few years.

Stay Indie....Stay Free....Stay Underground!